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  • #61
    Originally posted by Quenten View Post
    It hasn't been announced yet, but my reckoning is another shoot out is in the works. Nothing official yet, just tidbits here and there. Put em all together &.....we'll see!
    Ah yes, I remember now reading about Sonnie looking to do another GTG a while ago. Perhaps that will be it, with any luck. I do love those multi-speaker reviews/comparisons.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Jon Lane View Post
      Quenten, I didn't know you guys all had A5s of one version or another. That's wild!

      HTS's evaluations are really special and should be given a lot of recognition, in my opinion. Off-hand I can't think of a better effort to go into great depth across such representative product groups in the public eye. It's what other outlets could learn from rather than bench-racing products, making simple assumptions about them, or simply promoting new releases.

      I can tell you from this side of the business that I've seen how marketing drives much, much more action than sheer product effectiveness, and for that reason alone real comparisons in front of panels of experts are very valuable - all the front end rhetoric gets stripped away and all that's left, to paraphrase the late Harry Petersen, is the sound of real music in real spaces.
      I'm glad to hear that you feel this way. Of course, there is some risk for manufacturers when their products are compared directly with others, back-to-back. A poorly-done comparison can unjustifiably devastate the "loser."

      The way HTS has done this in the past minimizes the risk I think, because they don't rank speakers, and they point out what each speaker's strong suits are. They also don't pretend that their opinion is absolute or that, just because the two or three participants preferred one speaker over another, everyone would feel the same way they do. I know some people would like a ranking of best-to-worst, but IMO this does a disservice, not only to the products involved but also to the readers who are likely to misinterpret the results to mean that the "best" speaker is in fact the best one for them or their situation, when it may not be.

      Different people have different preferences and priorities, and there is no one best speaker for everyone or every situation. A proper comparison will be strict in stated goals and procedure, and point out the differences and highlight the strengths of each product. If it is done this way, the reader is more prepared to make an informed decision based on his needs and preferences, rather than be compelled to buy a particular speaker because it "won a shootout."

      Okay, done rambling now.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by bkeeler10 View Post
        I'm glad to hear that you feel this way. Of course, there is some risk for manufacturers when their products are compared directly with others, back-to-back. A poorly-done comparison can unjustifiably devastate the "loser."
        It certainly could, and probably for this reason some models and brands are conspicuous by their absence. I know I hesitated too, but relented and came to find I should have all along. After all, what works, works; and it has always been so. I got back into this field not many years ago to test that theory.

        Originally posted by bkeeler10 View Post
        The way HTS has done this in the past minimizes the risk I think, because they don't rank speakers, and they point out what each speaker's strong suits are. They also don't pretend that their opinion is absolute or that, just because the two or three participants preferred one speaker over another, everyone would feel the same way they do.
        That's key. You must hear the things to form any sort of basis for thinking you want to pursue good performance. And it is a pursuit unless it's just filling a need with an appliance (of which there are plenty).

        Originally posted by bkeeler10 View Post
        I know some people would like a ranking of best-to-worst, but IMO this does a disservice, not only to the products involved but also to the readers who are likely to misinterpret the results to mean that the "best" speaker is in fact the best one for them or their situation, when it may not be.

        Different people have different preferences and priorities, and there is no one best speaker for everyone or every situation. A proper comparison will be strict in stated goals and procedure, and point out the differences and highlight the strengths of each product. If it is done this way, the reader is more prepared to make an informed decision based on his needs and preferences, rather than be compelled to buy a particular speaker because it "won a shootout."
        "Best" is a natural request from any shopper but it's an impossible task whether in a price range or a technology category. Aiming for both together make it even worse, notwithstanding the somewhat cultish following some items have. There is no best, and that's where everything you're saying comes into focus.

        Concerning all the variables a designer has to sort into some meaningful art, a speaker is a complicated thing that doesn't lend itself to simple solutions. There are half a dozen inherent design trade-offs that prevent half a dozen design types from ever being universally superior - you'd be surprised what you'd find in that group - and maybe only a few types out of dozens that have minimized as many variables as humanly possible. Even they have limits, naturally.

        So it is possible to narrow to a point but it's not possible to avoid all the negative trade-offs. It's possible to maximize the behavior of some types and push them forward to some degree of obvious success but it's never easy or simple. We lack both an objective standard and a universal design winner, and we lack them for the same reasons.

        This said, the goals for the L7 were to concentrate on the speaker getting out of its own way as much as possible. There are some methods onboard it and the matching L6 that really do this, although it takes a special set of trade-offs to get there. I don't usually say this, but I think it'll succeed in its market segment because of this.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Jon Lane View Post
          Quenten, I didn't know you guys all had A5s of one version or another. That's wild!
          Yeah, that's I say! I remember asking Sonnie after the shootout if I could buy them & Leonard had already beat me to it. Then Wayne kept the review pair. Then I bought my 7.0 system. And just recently Sonnie bought a another pair.

          Bleeker10 is right, we took care not to play the winner card. We told people what we heard & we absolutely added no colorations to our reports. What we heard is what you got. No one speaker was great at everything, they all had the stronger/weaker points. A person has to get a feel for what he likes & find that in a product the best he can. The thing that hit me hardest was the incredible width of the soundstage & the clarity of the highs. The opening song with the piano...I was just amazed! It was perfect!

          Like I said though, it speaks volumes that we all have wound up with a pair. Mine hit exactly where I like them. Hats off to you Jon! And please take you time with these next speakers...I for one don't mind waiting!

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Quenten View Post
            Yeah, that's I say! I remember asking Sonnie after the shootout if I could buy them & Leonard had already beat me to it. Then Wayne kept the review pair. Then I bought my 7.0 system. And just recently Sonnie bought a another pair.

            Bleeker10 is right, we took care not to play the winner card. We told people what we heard & we absolutely added no colorations to our reports. What we heard is what you got. No one speaker was great at everything, they all had the stronger/weaker points. A person has to get a feel for what he likes & find that in a product the best he can. The thing that hit me hardest was the incredible width of the soundstage & the clarity of the highs. The opening song with the piano...I was just amazed! It was perfect!

            Like I said though, it speaks volumes that we all have wound up with a pair. Mine hit exactly where I like them. Hats off to you Jon! And please take you time with these next speakers...I for one don't mind waiting!
            Is it safe to say that what worked for you all was dimension and focus? I'm trying to correlate what you found as a group with what customers tell us with what I try to put into them. From there I can correlate that collective impression to design.

            It really all comes down to our four principles, and as such, the L7 is going to raise that bar. Sonic form always follows function. Or to put it another way, it's interesting how everything sounds exactly like what it is. ;)

            Comment


            • #66
              Hey everybody,

              I just noticed this thread has gotten 20,000 views. I need to ramp things up, don't I? ;)

              I'm holding back on a few pieces of information - photos, really - until I can get the L7 and matching L6 center deeper into the pipeline. When we finally do go forward ideally we'll release a steady sequence of details culminating in a first offering. For now, however, and in addition to some really nice recent events, I'll add this to the thread.

              The L7 is aimed at a higher category of products than the A series, which includes models A1.4 through A5rx-c. The L7 came about, as many of you remember, as the larger speaker requested after the A5 validated the sub-$1000/pr category for Chane a couple of years ago. The A5 proved instincts of mine about superior sound as well as showing there's room in that particular category for a small, performance-oriented tower. The A7, as it was originally conceived, was to have been the next larger model. It then turned into the L7 in order that it could evolve into a more premium product category as well.

              That said, this is what we know about the L7 and L6:

              All L series models start out in satin black paint. Construction is very heavily braced in the A series mold but more so. Cabinet proportions are somewhat more rakish, with a deeper form factor. (All of this will be clearer once the photos drop.)

              Technology will also move to favor performance levels we first explored in our previous Dana range - since the L7 and L6 are acoustically larger than the A series and don't need the extra wallop of very long stroke drivers, we will concentrate on acoustical transparency, detail, and terms like that related to extreme resolution.

              In these two flagship models we're also concentrating on a very "fast" sound, subjectively speaking. Research shows that the type of alignments we're using throughout each model's design grant a strong sense of sheer openness and it's this I want from this range. The low distortion aspect of the individual components meets this design type for what I think you'll find is another very competitive Chane model just in a higher level category.

              Ideally this type and style will come back down in size to encompass the Dana-style model mix too - there's no reason we can't offer, for example, a classic 6.5" stand monitor or even an L5 small tower. I'm going to return to this area when we can.

              That's it for now. We're moving some bits and pieces around right now and I'll post more real product details as soon as we're ready. Thanks to interested parties for your patience - you probably know we do this for the privilege of doing it well more than the lure of lots of retail product turnover. Thanks for understanding.

              Comment


              • #67
                OK, I'm first in line to buy! :) Really looking forward to these speakers. Want to step up my home theater and the L7 and L6 will make my ears very happy! Loving my current A5's and A2's (One A2 as center and two in a separate two channel setup).

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Jon Lane View Post
                  Hey everybody,

                  The L7 is aimed at a higher category of products than the A series, which includes models A1.4 through A5rx-c. The L7 came about, as many of you remember, as the larger speaker requested after the A5 validated the sub-$1000/pr category for Chane a couple of years ago. The A5 proved instincts of mine about superior sound as well as showing there's room in that particular category for a small, performance-oriented tower. The A7, as it was originally conceived, was to have been the next larger model. It then turned into the L7 in order that it could evolve into a more premium product category as well.

                  That said, this is what we know about the L7 and L6:

                  All L series models start out in satin black paint. Construction is very heavily braced in the A series mold but more so. Cabinet proportions are somewhat more rakish, with a deeper form factor. (All of this will be clearer once the photos drop.)

                  Technology will also move to favor performance levels we first explored in our previous Dana range - since the L7 and L6 are acoustically larger than the A series and don't need the extra wallop of very long stroke drivers, we will concentrate on acoustical transparency, detail, and terms like that related to extreme resolution.

                  In these two flagship models we're also concentrating on a very "fast" sound, subjectively speaking. Research shows that the type of alignments we're using throughout each model's design grant a strong sense of sheer openness and it's this I want from this range. The low distortion aspect of the individual components meets this design type for what I think you'll find is another very competitive Chane model just in a higher level category.

                  Ideally this type and style will come back down in size to encompass the Dana-style model mix too - there's no reason we can't offer, for example, a classic 6.5" stand monitor or even an L5 small tower. I'm going to return to this area when we can.
                  Hi Jon,

                  We have traded emails before and after my 5.1 setup in 2013, and within this last year some covering newer offerings. I got an email update about the 2.4 but I considered waiting on the L7 tower and L6 center series but your comment on the L series being a "premium" offering gives me pause. It's not that I doubt any of what it should bring to the table but a few of the features I love about the A5 series is the bang for the buck, simple black cab w/ kick ass sound at a price that gtg :woo:

                  In my 40x20 TV-workout room music can get loud enough to drive the wife out but I am now I'm wanting even more volume for music/stereo applications. Is there a potential for simply just a larger brother to the A5? I'd love to have larger front towers then A5's to the rear for movie night and sell the A1's to make a couple bucks back. IMHO the A5 gives me premium sound w/o the premium price.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by powerlifter405 View Post
                    I got an email update about the 2.4 but I considered waiting on the L7 tower and L6 center series but your comment on the L series being a "premium" offering gives me pause. It's not that I doubt any of what it should bring to the table but a few of the features I love about the A5 series is the bang for the buck, simple black cab w/ kick ass sound at a price that gtg :woo:

                    In my 40x20 TV-workout room music can get loud enough to drive the wife out but I am now I'm wanting even more volume for music/stereo applications. Is there a potential for simply just a larger brother to the A5?
                    If the question is if we'll offer a larger A5, the short answer is we can't. The longer answer is that the L7 actually is that model, but it flows into a natural design center that prevents it being a small change. The A5 just doesn't lend itself to a small increase in size; we have to bring it up quite a bit to give a really bigger sound than the very capable A5 already has.

                    At the same time, logistics and all the stuff nobody sees behind the scene also calls for a somewhat larger model than an "A5+", and customer demand has been asking for fancier finishes for a long time too. The L7 just makes a lot of sense, from design type to sound to our manufacturing operation.

                    This doesn't mean the L7 is going to be relatively expensive, however. I don't see anything on the market that do what it does for the cost or even near to it. It's a high-value option no matter how you stack it. But, being in a finer finish and using the sorts and sizes of drivers that it takes to do what it must will naturally bring the price up.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      I can handle the fact of a larger cab, larger and more components = a price increase.

                      That simply makes sense and is fully understandable. My only ouch if you will, if I'm able to think of it as a upsized A5, is actually only the premium finish. I have no idea how much extra it will be and I won't ask you to divulge. In some of the ID offerings for subs I saw what I considered a substantial up cost as a piano finish is labor intensive. For me it's like buying a vette, I want one because it's quicker, faster and handles better than any other GM offering but not for fit/finish ;)

                      Will there ever be a "base" model offering for the L series w/ the wrap like the A5?

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by powerlifter405 View Post
                        Will there ever be a "base" model offering for the L series w/ the wrap like the A5?
                        I won't rule it out but the logistics and costs of stocking another version in vinyl is daunting, especially when the average buyer prefers the higher grade finish.

                        The vinyl finish, while economical and therefore effective, is really just the continuation of the long-gone Acculine brand. After we redeveloped that small range into what Chane is today, we re-launched the Dana brand along side it, with premium drivers and fancier cherry cabinets. Now we find we need to combine them together and add in as many advances as possible from the years that passed.

                        So far the cost uptick for satin black has been minor.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Is it safe to say that what worked for you all was dimension and focus?
                          Jon, I missed that question back then, I guess I just read it too fast!

                          The short of it was we were looking for Soundstage (width & depth), precise imaging, clarity (not only higher frequencies, but vocals were very important) & frequency response. We didn't use a sub so we could get a feel for how they handled to lower end for themselves. The joy of just listening to some of our favorite music again was very nice. Sonnies' room was well treated, which makes a difference. It allowed the speakers to bring everything they had to the party! We really enjoyed the experience.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Jon,

                            Am I over simplifying if I think of it as larger components, higher quality components, larger cab and satin finish?

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by powerlifter405 View Post
                              Jon,

                              Am I over simplifying if I think of it as larger components, higher quality components, larger cab and satin finish?
                              Add a slightly improved internal design - I can do things here I can't in the A5 - and that's basically it. The A5 is, after all, only 1000mm tall and less than 30 liters so going acoustically larger is the first goal. The rest follows that.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Okie do-key.

                                Will a full line up in the L series be released together; towers, center and rears? I ask as if I'm thinking of a larger center and of course bigger towers. That would be a win-win for my music and ht pleasure.

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