2018 subwoofer thread

[Vance]

[As Chane moves toward bass products we'll collect conversations about them here. The following posts have been moved here from other threads. Thread stickied 3/15 -Moderator]

Fishing time.... Are any of the prototypes a subwoofer with a 15 inch or larger driver?

[Chane M&C]

Fishing time.... Are any of the prototypes a subwoofer with a 15 inch or larger driver?

Not specifically in the L series, but other than that, yes. Plans for bass systems are coming together nicely now. Products will appear from 10" up.

[cgramer]

Not specifically in the L series, but other than that, yes. Plans for bass systems are coming together nicely now. Products will appear from 10" up.

Are you planning on sealed models, ported, or both? I'd be interested in a couple of 10-12" sealed subs...

[Chane M&C]

Are you planning on sealed models, ported, or both? I'd be interested in a couple of 10-12" sealed subs...

Both, in an overlaying sort of matrix. We'll have a limited edition twin opposed 10" with DSP at 600w and a twin 12" just came through the process yesterday but hasn't been completely vetted just yet.

[Vance]

Both, in an overlaying sort of matrix. We'll have a limited edition twin opposed 10" with DSP at 600w and a twin 12" just came through the process yesterday but hasn't been completely vetted just yet.

Fascinating stuff... I know numbers are only a part of the story but what depths are these expected to plumb?

[Chane M&C]

Fascinating stuff... I know numbers are only a part of the story but what depths are these expected to plumb?

Since the F3 in virtually all subwoofers is set by variable electronic equalization and not natural woofer-box tuning, it's theoretically unlimited. While not strictly advisable, you could set it to 15hz, although then the sub should be used at correspondingly lower levels than if its knee was set at 30Hz, for example. Each octave represents four times the cone excursion so at some point things go off to a fringe and the system becomes too acoustically small to do any real work. But it is still making a very low frequency, technically speaking.

I'll have a better answer once we tune each of these units. Then we'll determine what we trust is an optimized balance between F3 and maximum loudness. Whether we allow users to adjust this parameter remains to be seen, but it is theoretically possible.

Here's a good example of the hard limit a driver in a box encounters. This happens to be a simple 18" woofer in a moderately-sized sealed chamber. The black line is maximum cone output and the red line is an average, equalized, as-used limit. The red curve can be placed anywhere to the right of and below the black curve, but note how since the black curve has a sloped ceiling, whenever the F3 is extended the maximum loudness diminishes. This is classic speaker-in-a-box stuff and completely governed by the driver's physical limits.

Dual 10" and dual 12" systems are acoustically smaller and will naturally limit sooner, but the dual 12" is close to this...



By the way, any expectations of 120dB @ 20Hz really should be tempered by, well, reality. Output like that is almost impossible in any practical system, and while the figures sound good, actually hitting them is really hard (and really hazardous if you value your hearing). Real bass numbers are more conservative than we might originally think.

That said, see this space in a month or two...

[Vance]

Subwoofer Information

That's all fascinating stuff. In my case you've also baited the hook; it's starting to sound like I'll have to wait for Chane's new subs before I update my old 10 inch Mirage.

Why did you decide on dual drivers as opposed to single larger 15 or 18s? Is this more or less expensive to produce?

[Chane M&C]

Why did you decide on dual drivers as opposed to single larger 15 or 18s? Is this more or less expensive to produce?

Cost strategies, as well as short term versus long term products - we have options for both and as they all develop together sometimes we can deliver special values based on how we sort and arrange components. For example, a opposed twin ten allows for appreciable power to be applied across two voice coils. With drivers opposed the cabinet doesn't hop across the floor either.

For other classes like single 15 and single 18 other factors come into play - amp classes, control types associated with them, user features. Basically you spend a lot of time putting puzzles together, always checking the cost and value to the customer with each piece fitted.

[Vance]

Subwoofer Cost

I know it might be a little too early to offer us definitive numbers but roughly what would the dual 12 cost?

[Chane M&C]

I know it might be a little too early to offer us definitive numbers but roughly what would the dual 12 cost?

I'm afraid it is a little early. We will have some huge deals on smaller subs - 10" and possibly 12" classes - and then some really advanced products in larger classes...

[theJman]

Subscribed.

[Vance]

Larger Subwoofers

I'm afraid it is a little early. We will have some huge deals on smaller subs - 10" and possibly 12" classes - and then some really advanced products in larger classes...

Could we get a rough time frame for the availability of a sub that reaches into the mid teens? I understand most of the bass in movies and music happens well above the teens but I like the idea of not missing out when sound tracks venture lower.

[Chane M&C]

Could we get a rough time frame for the availability of a sub that reaches into the mid teens? I understand most of the bass in movies and music happens well above the teens but I like the idea of not missing out when sound tracks venture lower.

I can't estimate - it's better if we let it occur and when we have hardware we know for certain is headed for production I'll announce it.

Now, as for low bass, consider that a bass system rated to 20Hz has an attenuation below that point that is so gradual that it's only a couple of dB down at 15Hz. You'll miss nothing, especially when we add back energy due to room gain.

Unless you want seismic, motion actuator-style, tactile, haptic bass, a good 20-25Hz system will go as low as we can hear.

That said, watch this space. ;)

[Vance]

Deep Bass

Now, as for low bass, consider that a bass system rated to 20Hz has an attenuation below that point that is so gradual that it's only a couple of dB down at 15Hz. You'll miss nothing, especially when we add back energy due to room gain.

Unless you want seismic, motion actuator-style, tactile, haptic bass, a good 20-25Hz system will go as low as we can hear.

That said, watch this space. ;)

How dare you respond to my message with factual, objective science! Some people. :biglaugh: I'm sure you've seen 'This Is Spinal Tap'; we all want our amplifiers to go to 11.

But yes, I'm watching this space like a bass deprived hawk (doesn't actually happen in nature but you get the idea).

[Chane M&C]

How dare you respond to my message with factual, objective science! Some people. :biglaugh: I'm sure you've seen 'This Is Spinal Tap'; we all want our amplifiers to go to 11.

But yes, I'm watching this space like a bass deprived hawk (doesn't actually happen in nature but you get the idea).

I'm really excited about our program, and pending just a couple of production tests, I think we'll have your preferred sub-20Hz stuff in larger units and some aggressive values in the smaller ones.